X-Account-Key: account3 X-UIDL: 486A2AA9F16D47A588BCA0ACEEFAF1 X-Mozilla-Status: 0000 X-Mozilla-Status2: 00000000 Received: from n16a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com ([66.94.237.45]) by highonpots.com with MailEnable ESMTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2005 19:49:24 -0600 Received: from [66.218.69.3] by n16.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:02 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.27] by mailer3.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:02 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: groups-email X-Apparently-To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Received: (qmail 23279 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2005 01:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (66.218.66.218) by m21.grp.scd.yahoo.com with QMQP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO n9a.bulk.scd.yahoo.com) (66.94.237.43) by mta3.grp.scd.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:01 -0000 DomainKey-Signature: Received: from [66.218.69.6] by n9.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:01 -0000 Received: from [66.218.66.69] by mailer6.bulk.scd.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 28 Mar 2005 01:50:01 -0000 To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Message-ID: In-Reply-To: User-Agent: eGroups-EW/0.82 X-Mailer: Yahoo Groups Message Poster X-Originating-IP: 66.94.237.43 X-eGroups-Msg-Info: 1:12:0 From: hadishon X-Yahoo-Profile: hadishon MIME-Version: 1.0 Mailing-List: list papercrete@yahoogroups.com; contact papercrete-owner@yahoogroups.com Delivered-To: mailing list papercrete@yahoogroups.com List-Id: Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 01:50:00 -0000 Subject: [papercrete] Re: Papercrete Vault over Greenhouse Reply-To: papercrete@yahoogroups.com Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Steve,

I have a digital camera and webmaster skills.  I'm planning on
making a website to document my progress so that others may learn
from my mistakes (and hopefully success).

Doug,

By laying the papercrete on top of the greenhouse structure, I hope
to avoid cracking problems to the exterior walls.  Many of the
problems I've seen with cracks is when an item inside the papercrete
cast is too close to the edge or when there are air gaps.  By my
design, I hope to avoid this problem.  What I am concerned with is
the interior.  I have been thinking of plastering the inside of the
vault.  This is where I think cracks may appear.  On the good side,
the cracks on the inside won't be a structure problem and would just
have to be patched.

I've written some ideas about Tom's problem with expansion under his
topic.

I haven't built a small model using hoops, plastic, and so on.  I
hope to do so soon.  I will post results when I do.

Michael


--- In papercrete@yahoogroups.com, "Doug" <liquidwindows@y...> wrote:
>
> This will certainly be interesting to see if you can get this to
> work - expansion and contraction rates of steel are different than
> papercrete and rebarred papercrete fences have cracked near the
rebar
> points. Papercrete does have some elasticity however - if you
weather
> seal it correctly you can minimize the possible problem - Missouri
> has less extreme weather than some other areas but humidity may
pose
> a big problem in your initial drying - you might look into a large
> commercial dehumidifier.
>
> An artist in Alpine Texas has had some problems with separation at
> the point in his house that he used a wood beam because of the
> expansion differences.  Have you built a small model using the
steel
> substructure to see if any problems develop?  You can put a small
> model through some temperature extremes to see what happens fairly
> quickly.
>
> --- In papercrete@yahoogroups.com, steve chiekovski
<stechiekov@y...>
> wrote:
> > For greenhouses I suggest a review of http:///www.solviva.com
> > and for vaults http://www.calearth.org is worth looking into.
> > 
> > You sound to me like a true pioneer and are certainly an
> innovator.  I hope you keep us posted as your project continues. 
It
> would be wonderful if you posted us some photos as you move stage
by
> stage through your construction.
> >
> >
> > hadishon <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > This is my first post to this group.  I have read all of the
> > archives and I am very interested in papercrete.
> >
> > I have learned about papercrete from my father who has always
had
> an
> > interest in non-convectional (from today's standpoint) building
> > methods.  I have been reading and studying everything I can on
the
> > subject of papercrete and general building methods.  I have done
> > several test using papercrete and found it to be a great method
to
> > build.
> >
> > I would like to share my ideas on building my house and if you
have
> > any comments, it would be greatly appreciated.
> >
> > I am in the process of designing my future home in Mid-
Missouri. 
> > This is a humid and wet (at times) area and I have taken
> precautions
> > to keep the papercrete as dry as possible. 
> >
> > I'm planning on starting to produce blocks (in a greenhouse to
> avoid
> > as much moisture as I can) within the next  month.  I hope to
have
> > most of the house finish by mid summer.
> >
> > My plan is to erect a 26' x 100'  semi-circular steel greenhouse
on
> > a thick ruble trench/pad and then cover the greenhouse with
> > papercrete.  The steel hoops are 1 5/8" in diameter and will be
on
> > 4' centers with truss ties.  The steel pipes will be well
anchored
> > into the ground and will connect to the greenhouse hoops a few
> > (haven't yet determined exactly how high yet) feet above grade. 
> > (basically, we will have a straight piece of pipe that will go
> below
> > frost line and above grade to elevate the greenhouse on a stem
wall.
> >
> > We would like 7' flat walls around the perimeter of the house so
> the
> > idea is to raise the greenhouse some and then build the exterior
> > walls inside the greenhouse.  Basically, we don't want to use 7'
> > stem walls and have the house to have a 20' ceiling.  So
basically
> > we are compromising with a smaller stem wall and the wall inset
> from
> > the exterior of the greenhouse.  The finish product would be a
> > segmental vault on a 7' papercrete wall with some steel pipes
cut
> > out and some that will protrude from the papercrete wall for
> > buttresses.
> >
> > Once the wall is built, we will be laying blocks onto the
> greenhouse
> > plastic to cover the roof and make the papercrete vault.  We
will
> > also be building the haunches thicker then the top of the arch
to
> > help direct the thrust of the vault to the walls.
> >
> > During construction, the exterior of the vault will be covered
with
> > plastic if it starts to rain.  Once the exterior is done, we
will
> > take the plastic off from the inside and plaster the inside of
the
> > vault.
> >
> > After completing the vault and the papercrete has thoroughly
dried,
> > will we seal and paint the exterior.
> >
> > I have read about people building domes from blocks alone and on
> top
> > of wire netting.  I have not seen anyone build a dome/vault
using a
> > greenhouse for the form.  I believe it will work, the only
question
> > would be how long until it will dry completely.  I'm sure the
> > plastic will slow the drying process of the mortar but once it
> > firms, I can take the plastic off from the inside to aid the
> > breathing and drying of the mortar.
> >
> > Again, I would appreciate any comments from you or anyone else
you
> > know that has experience in papercrete vaults and arches. 
> >
> > Thank you for your time,
> > Michael Schutt
> > Madison MO
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
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